'He talked about working with images he didn’t like. Abstraction doesn’t hold an interest. There was another desire, I particularly liked the phrase he used – 'to touch the world...
"He talked about working with images he didn’t like. Abstraction doesn’t hold an interest. There was another desire, I particularly liked the phrase he used – 'to touch the world outside of painting.' " (from "Artists talking (around) painting", a conversation between TR Ericsson and Sean Crossley, 2019)